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Tema: Tecnicas de control.

  1. #1
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    Predeterminado Tecnicas de control.

    Aqui les pongo las tecnicas que puso por ahi Tony Tello.
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

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    Cita Iniciado por Tony Tello Ver Mensaje
    Lo siguiente fue copiado del Interenet de un tirador Estadounidense de pistola que ya murio llamado Don Nygord. Aunque el era pistolero yo creo que pueden aplicar sus tecnicas para otras modalidades.

    Building Your Technique

    Not that we discourage the attitude that "If I had a better gun, I'd shoot better" (after all we ARE in the business!), but the truth is that hard work on a sound technique is the real way to boost your performance. The problem is the "hard work" part - nobody enjoys that nearly as much as seeing holes appear in paper 10 minutes after you arrive at the range. Still, once you decide that you are serious you will not mind the effort as the results begin to appear. In building your technique, you might as well start at the ground and work up. I like to use the analogy of building a house: You need a good, strong, well-designed foundation to support the rest of the structure.

    The first idea to dispel is that of finding your "natural stance". While your physical makeup will have to be factored in (I had one student who had engaged in "Kendo" for years - he was so muscle-bound he could NOT hold his arms out straight!) your stance should be based on basic principles and then MADE "natural" by repetition. Almost all elements of a good shooting technique are compromises and we see that in choosing a good body position: The placement of the feet is a compromise between stress on the ankles and legs and the desire to have the widest possible platform for stability. The commonly stated rule of thumb that the feet should be about as far apart as the shoulder width is a good starting point. Next, we must choose how to orient our feet. Again, the often-heard "45 degrees to the firing line" is a reasonable starting place. The feet are set as if along the sides of a triangle - toes out, heels in with the firing line being the base of the triangle and a line through the feet converging behind the shooter as the apex. We choose something near this angle as the best compromise in reducing strain on the body as we divide the 90 degrees to be subtended between the mechanically inefficient 'facing the target directly on' and the quite efficient 'feet parallel to the firing line' positions. If we were to stand with the feet parallel to the firing line (and some early shooters did!) we put enormous strain on the neck trying to twist the head around enough to sight down the barrel line and we also constrict the carotid artery, which is supplying oxygen to the eyes and brain. This is not a good, so we start with the feet as above and subtend the remaining 45 degrees or so by twisting at the hips and ankles about 20-25 degrees and by turning the head for the remainder of the way. Now we have stabilized the back and have distributed the strain throughout the body leaving the neck arteries free and the neck muscles only mildly extended. The head is erect, of course, and so the balancing organs feel correctly oriented.

    I recommend you choose a place at home to do your dry firing where you can place and leave tape markers on the floor in the above relationship to the aiming mark on the wall. This way you can step into place exactly the same way each time you begin your dry training. Very quickly your body will "learn" this position/stance and it will become "natural". Don't be afraid to mark your foot position with chalk or tape at the range and even during the match, either! In a long match, it is recommended you take breaks (or, you may have no choice during scoring breaks.) It is very nice to be able to just step back into the exact place and thus eliminate another possible variable. I have seen shooters at world level matches do this, so ignore any odd looks and be confident you are in "your" stance.

    We'll go on from here the next "Note".
    Don
    primero
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  3. #3
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    Building Your Technique

    By now, your position should be pretty well established, so as promised, we will take the next step in building our technique and discuss breathing. Hey, what's to discuss? Everybody knows how to breathe, right? As usual, however, there are good ways and better ways—particularly if you are shooting.

    The first things to understand are your physiological needs and how the body treats breathing (it has its own agenda going here and shooting wasn't hardwired in to be part of it!). The brain and the eyes are two of the biggest users of oxygen and darned if those aren't two of the most important organs used in shooting. So, we have to be sure they are getting lots of it. Another thing to consider is that the "out-of-breath, must breathe" feeling is NOT due to lack of oxygen, but due to the body detecting an excess of CO2. When we take these facts into account and add them to the need to not be moving while we deliver a shot, the framework of our breathing technique emerges. Other things to consider are the fact that really full lungs tend to compress the heart and change its beating rate and yet an expanded chest can help support the gun.

    The first step in breathing for shot delivery is to PURGE the lungs of CO2. Most of us only use about 1/2 the lung's capacity while breathing "at rest." CO2 is heavier than air and sinks to the bottom of the lungs. To purge it, we need to make a deep exhale and push all of the CO2 out. The second step is to take a deep inhale—fill the lungs all the way up. As we do this, we lift the gun—letting the expanded chest help. The third step is to make a "normal exhale". This will take the pressure off the heart and as we do so, we lower the gun into the aiming area. Then, I like to "top off the tank" by taking a normal inhale. Now we are "full" of fresh oxygenated air, empty of CO2 (which promptly starts building up again) and in the aiming area ready to deliver the shot. Here we can fine tune by making a controlled small exhale to let the gun settle into the exact area we have chosen as our aiming area. The chest actually is helping support the gun. You must experiment to find the point that is just right for you. Now we become still, "holding" our breath while the shot is delivered. Finally, we make a normal exhale and lower the gun to the bench and begin "normal" at-rest breathing while we relax our eyes, body, and mind during the "rest" phase of the shot cycle.

    Once more:

    Step 1: Deep exhale
    Step 2: Deep inhale, lift gun as we do so
    Step 3: Normal exhale to relieve pressure on heart
    Step 4: Normal inhale to "top off" (maybe even a bit MORE than "normal")
    Step 5: Tiny, controlled exhale to fine tune "support" position for the gun in aiming area
    Step 6: Still (hold breath) while shot is delivered (and until after bullet hits target—"follow through")
    Step 7: Exhale normally while lowering gun to bench
    Step 8: Normal respiration while resting between shots.

    Who would have thought "breathing" requires all those steps? this routine now must be folded into your technique by slow, careful, exact repetition until it too becomes "natural". As with everything else, consistency is your goal.


    Don
    segundo
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  4. #4
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    Changing for the better

    Many times I am asked, "What should I change so I can do better?" We know that change is necessary to go from one state or level to another, but how and when and what do you change if you want to "improve"? One man asked me how to hold his gun "still". He was disappointed when I told him this was not where he should be putting his effort! What he really wanted, of course, was better performance (scores). His analysis of what change would bring him the most improvement was faulty in thinking that his "stillness" or hold was the biggest problem he had. (Of course, we all know what really is the biggest problem, don't we?)
    I am an inveterate changer myself. I believe this has helped me considerably in my career (although some of the coaches the US team has had were made crazy by this!) All my changes, though, were SYSTEMATIC. This means I analyzed the current situation, decided on which element would yield the most performance gain if changed, made the change I thought would be for the best, set up a test of efficacy, set a timetable for implementation and then RECORDED everything I could think of: All of the above (the change, the why, the how, the goal for the change, the schedule, etc.) and finally I documented ALL the results (scores). Warning!! All changes have side effects: In our eagerness to change something that seems to be an obstacle, sometimes we get negative, unintended results. One of my students decided that he would stop drinking his 8 cups of coffee a day for the duration of the National Championships. This surely would make him less "nervous" and he would do better. The only problem was the intense withdrawal headaches from the sudden cessation of caffeine! Moral: If the change will affect your physical state, make it early enough to allow for acclimation. Another example of this was the student who started weight training in the middle of the shooting season. His body was getting stronger, but his fine muscle control, needed for good performance, was shot! (Pun intended.) This also applies to changes to your equipment: A different gun, adding weights to the gun, a different grip, etc. Make these kinds of changes early enough to allow for adaptation by the time the "big match" must be shot. More subtle changes like trigger weight, trigger position, shooting glass lenses, rhythm of firing, etc. can be made without so much concern about adaptive time, but should be planned, adhered to for a predetermined period and DOCUMENTED - then correlated with the results obtained. Only this way can you make an objective evaluation of the value of the change and decide whether to keep the new conditions or go back to "zero" and start again. Of course, sometimes the change is either so good or so bad it is obvious immediately that should either keep it or drop it! Either way, you've learned something you didn't know before and that is progress. And, the smarter we become, the better we perform. So change away - wisely!
    Don
    tercero
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  5. #5
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    In order to get the correct sight picture at any given time you must be able to CONTROL the power of your shooting lens and the depth of field. In other words, you must be able to change these elements. Why? Because your eyes change from day to day, the sight radiuses of the pistols are different - one from another, and the light you experience from range to range (or minute to minute outdoors) changes. All of these things require you to make an adaptation if you want to get the best possible sight picture.
    The only shooting system that I know of that makes this relatively easy is the "Champion" system. This system uses clip-on lenses that can be quickly and easily put over the basic lens (usually a prescription lens to get your vision to "normal" or zero) to add power when needed. Then there is an adjustable iris or diaphragm that goes between the eye and the lens to allow changes in depth of field. With this system you are in control. Remember, there is no one lens that is right for all shooting conditions! And that is where the trouble and misunderstanding comes in.
    I finally had to purchase a lensometer - a microscope like device to read the "sphere" (power), "cylinder" (shape of lens to correct for astigmatism), and "axis" (angle of rotation of the cylinder) of prescription lenses. I had to do this to unravel the problems I was having with my own shooting glasses and to understand the problems clients were having with theirs. It turns out that a lot of eye care people, even if they are shooters, tend to make the wrong lenses! And, your lenses are practically NEVER what the prescription calls for (even if the prescription happens to be correct - which it may not be). We just had a client come by who had some expensive lenses made for his shooting glasses. The instructions were to add +.25 and +.50 diopters sphere to his prescription - resulting in two lenses to be used for pistol shooting. Unfortunately, the optician or the optometrist goofed and the lenses were made with -.25 and -.50 differences. The poor shooter couldn't figure out why things weren't better. This type of thing happens quite often. For this reason, we advise you to not bother the poor eye care person with your needs for shooting, but understand what is to be done, get the right equipment (Champion glasses), and take over the job yourself.
    The eye, when relaxed, focuses out about 1.5 meters from your face. The front sight is inside of that distance. Therefore, you want to use a lens that brings that relaxed focus IN - ideally at the front sight. Some shooters take their gun to the obliging eye doctor's office and he "fits" a lens that does that. That is fine, if you are going to shoot in a relatively dark doctor's office! But, you still can't change! The proper way to do this is with low powered PLUS lenses. Plus lenses bring the focus in, minus lenses move the focus out. Generally, we recommend you start with two clip-on lenses: +. 25 and +. 50 diopter (diopter is one meter change in focal length). These take care of most situations. Here the rule is: "The stronger the light, the stronger the lens". So, in bright light you will need to add the +. 50 instead of the +. 25. Why? Depth of field.
    Depth of field means over how long a distance things are things in focus. In bright light, your natural pupil closes down and you get the "pinhole camera" effect: everything for quite a ways out is in focus. This means the pistol shooter's no-no: the target will be in focus! We all know that you don't want that, so it takes an added power lens to "fuzz" it up again. Now what about low light? Well, when your natural pupil opens up everything gets "fuzzy" - most importantly, the front sight! And that is where the adjustable iris comes in: you close it until you get the sights sharp and leave the target "fuzzy".
    By now, you see that this is not a straightforward situation of "get a lens for my shooting glasses" and forget about it. And, above I've alluded to problems normally beyond our ken: quality control of the whole process. There is the possible error in the refractive process (the determining of your prescription), the prescribing process (getting the additional power backwards), and the lens making process itself. God help you to get the lens you really need to get to "zero" or 20/20! But you can have each step checked so that you get as close as possible - just don't trust anybody. Be a pain in the butt and have each person in the chain show you the lens is exactly what it should be. Then you take over and set up your glasses for the conditions of "right now".
    Good seeing/shooting.
    Don
    cuarto
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  6. #6
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    RELEASING THE SHOT
    Now being retired from competition for almost two years, it is interesting to observe the changes in my skills and the effect on my precision shooting due to the lack of concentrated training. The first lesson to be relearned was that trying to use a "breaking glass" crisp trigger would result in some awful slow fire shots!
    The problem with this kind of trigger is that you MUST be moving your trigger finger throughout the holding and aiming period! But, you cannot do this easily with a super-crisp 2nd stage setup on your trigger. Yet, I would guess that 90% of the "bulls eye" shooters try to use this setup and also only begin applying the second stage or final release pressure AFTER they have recognized they are in the "best" part of their hold! This, ladies and gentlemen, is TOO LATE.
    Today, we pretty much understand how the mind controls the body and agree that the sub-conscious aspect of the mind is the controller of all the elements in delivering an aimed shot. The only conscious act by the shooter should be the on-going effort to maintain the best alignment of the sights he can while all else is being coordinated by the sub-conscious.
    It is also my belief that once the sub-conscious has been correctly programmed (by careful training on each element in the shot delivery process) that it will integrate the observed movement of the gun AND the movement of the trigger finger as it adds pressure to the trigger and moves to the rear to give you the result you want. However, that finger HAS to be moving! Otherwise there is no pressure/movement curve to integrate with the gun movement. Instead, there is a convulsive movement sometime during the hold - probably due to a conscious effort by the shooter. Not good.
    The better method that will greatly benefit your performance is to first optimize the mechanical part of the equation by giving the 2nd stage of the trigger setup a bit of "roll" or movement before release - instead of a 'super crisp break'. This bit of movement is what is needed by the subconscious so it can "time" the rate of release to coincide with the sight-aligned gun's movement into the 'sweet-spot' that results in a 10.

    Next, you need to analyze the movement pattern that you have TODAY. Maybe, for many reasons, you aren't as steady as a week ago or even yesterday. This is NOT important - really! What is important is to recognize the current pattern: How far into the hold cycle is the ONSET of your steadiest hold? How long does this period last? (This is also not very important, because you should never get to the end of this short "steadiest" period or even to the middle of it!)
    Then, by dry firing, you find the RATE at which you must apply pressure to the trigger so that the sear (2nd stage) releases JUST AS YOU BEGIN THAT STEADIEST PROTION OF YOUR HOLD. Now at first this is a bit scary: "What if it goes off early?" Well, what if it does? Actually, you will probably get no worse than a 9 and you have about a 50/50 chance of a 10! The release will be clean and your hold is probably better than you think, anyway. For the next shot just use a slightly slower rate. The really bad thing is to not have the rate fast enough and you end up near (or past) the end of the steadiest period before the shot releases. Now you WILL have some bad shots!
    When you have the rhythm for this shooting session down, the benefits are enormous: First, you expend far less energy and use up far less oxygen. This means you do not fatigue prematurely and have reserves all the way to the end of the match. Secondly, your confidence goes up greatly as the shots break effortlessly and you begin to see the phenomenon of: "It broke just as it was heading for the sweet spot". You will NOT see those awful "aws---" shots and you'll start wondering why this used to seem so hard!
    So, the lesson is: Start the pressure on the second stage as you settle into the aiming area and keep increasing it at a rate that allows the shot to break JUST AS YOU ENTER THE STEADIEST PART OF YOUR HOLD. Note we have insisted on using "steadiest" not "steady". No one is completely steady, nor is it necessary to be! The shot just has to release as the gun enters the area that will result in a 10. Soon, you will realize that your subconscious is sort of 'steering' the gun with the trigger pressure into that area. And never forget - YOU (consciously) cannot do this! Just let your subconscious do it and enjoy!
    quinto
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  7. #7
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    So THAT'S why there are screws on my rear sight!
    I really thought I had written this article before, but looking over the past postings, I don't see it, so we'll put it down now and be done with it. As with many of these notes, they are inspired by clients or shooters seeking advice. We will cover two subjects actually but, as they are related, it shouldn't cause us to go too far a field.
    Two separate incidents in the last month prompted me to wonder if what seemed obvious might not be: First a young junior pentathlete's mom related how, during an event out of the country, a medal was lost by disappointing results in the "shoot". It seems the groups shot were fine but were "inexplicably" low and right. "What could have happened?", they wanted to know. Then, about a week later we get a call from a middle-aged, 20 years of experience, shooter who had a "disastrous" indoor sectional match - his groups were not centered even though he had "sighted in carefully at my home range before the trip". Both of these individuals seemed a bit amazed at the discussion that followed which, in short, reminded them of what those funny knobs and/or screws on the rear sight were intended to do. When I told them that I often changed the sight settings during the match as well as within the sighting period, they gasped! What incredible daring, they seemed to think.
    This type of thinking is pretty much confined to pistol shooters, I've found - rifle shooters are taught about sight changes from the first shots they take and expect to make them as appropriate. Whole industries are formed around rear sights for rifles with have from 20 to 40 clicks per revolution, built in filters and diaphragms, rotatable bodies, levels, anti-backlash features, etc. Pistol shooters for years had to use "Micro Sight" sights which you HATED to adjust because what if you got a "big" click when you wanted a "small" click?! Maybe this is where the fear of adjusting sights came from. Of course, pistol sights are better now - still a bit primitive compared to rifle sights - but actually adequate for the task.
    OK, why do we need to adjust our sights and become confident in our ability to do so? Let us count the whys.
    1. Light.
    This is probably the biggest reason that adjustments will need to be made by the pistol shooter. Not only do the lighting conditions vary from range to range (especially indoor ranges), but they will vary during the match (outdoors especially.) Even indoor ranges with windows to the outside will see varying light during the hour or two of a match. And, there is an old adage: "The group will follow the light." One common occurrence on outdoor ranges is for the sun to cross from right to left (left to right) on north(south) facing ranges. And, yes, your group will move across the target with it. The reason this occurs is that light refracts off the sharp edges of the front sight, tending to create a "halo" effect there and blurring or making indistinct that edge toward the light source. Then, you center the apparent black bar (which is now thinner than it would be without refraction) and voila! - The group has moved in the direction of the light.
    Another effect of changing light is the apparent change in size of the black aiming area. When the target is brightly lit, the bull will appear smaller. This is due to a "bleed over" effect on the retina of the eye. The rods and cones at the demarcation line of the black image and the white background are over-stimulated by the amount of light entering the eye and some cells will "fire off" when they shouldn't, blurring the boundary and registering "white" instead of "black". Obviously, this will result in high groups.
    Light is the major external cause of shifting groups, but another one is wind. While rifle shooters are very skilled at 'reading' wind, pistols shooters often ignore it. One can get away with this when it is possible to wait for lulls and only shoot during them, but sometimes wind is more or less constant and from primarily one direction and then it should be obvious that a sight change to compensate for the effect on the projectile and the shooter is needed.
    2. The shooter.
    More subtle, but often just as important, effects on grouping are internal or shooter based:
    A. Body position or stance. If you change your body position in relation to the target, the group will shift. Back in the "Micro Sight" days, if you wanted a 'small' click adjustment from right to left, instead of adjusting the sight you simply moved your left foot in the direction you wanted the group to go and it obligingly WOULD move!
    B. Head position. A sub-set of body position often changed unwittingly is the position of the head. I have seen shooters who, during the delivery of the shot, let their heads gradually droop toward the chest. As long as this droop is absolutely consistent, it will matter little. But, if the head position changes from shot to shot or string-to-string you will either see a shift in-group or a much wider group than normal.
    C. Grip Pressure/Position. One of the advantages of "orthopedic" grips is that theoretically they will reduce variation in how the gun is held in the hand. This is, of course, good. A very important factor not always getting the attention it should is consistency in grip pressure. It should be obvious that if, under stress, you grip the gun more tightly than 'normal', the group will shift. And, gripping more loosely will cause a shift as well, of course.
    D. Fatigue. In the course of a long match such as Free Pistol or Air Pistol, there WILL be fatigue. This can cause changes in A, B, and/or C above. When I was at my peak, I regularly saw my shots in Air Pistol "walk" across the 10 ring from right to left as the match progressed. It took about 8 shots to go from the right hand edge to the left! I just accepted this and took one click to the right every 8 shots or so. Another element of fatigue is the loss of eye focal accommodation and acuity. Fuzzier sights may easily cause the group to change.
    Well, now lets discuss coping strategy. First, one needs to become aware of the characteristics of your gun's sights. What happens when you take one click? What happens when you take 10 clicks in one direction? What happens when you take 10 back? Did the group go back to the original area? Is there "backlash" in the mechanism? With some sights, you might have to take "two forward and 1 back" to get 1 forward, as just taking 1 forward might not do anything! And, you need to know how far the shot group center will move per click. Once you feel you "know" your sight, you will be much less hesitant about changing the setting, knowing what the effect of any number of clicks will be. Also, sight "blackening" with fine soot from candles, camphor, carbide lamps or the newer, convenient lighters such as the "Black Match" can help reduce refraction effects.
    When to change? One does not want to "chase" each shot, but rather consider the center of the "group". (This presumes you GET a group when you shoot! A "group" should be defined as a cluster of shots into an area equal to your present hold area - hopefully no bigger than the 9 ring or 8 ring.) A group should be at least three shots and probably 5 shots is better. In ISSF events you get a sighting target(s) and can pretty precisely determine your group's center and adjust it before going to record. In NRA shooting you don't have this luxury, so you must assess your skill level and decide how many shots you need to be SURE you need a change. Very skilled shooters can use one shot, but perhaps a few more would be wise for most of us. Look at the group and draw an imaginary circle that encompasses it and then quarter the circle with vertical and horizontal lines. Where they cross is the center of the group. (It is quite correct to look a cluster of, say, 5 shots and see 4 of them very close together and a fifth "flier" that you KNOW is the result of a poor execution and exclude it from the 'group'!) Next, estimate the distance that the center of the group must be moved to put it in the center of the target (where the printers almost always put the '10 ring'!) From your study of how far 1 or 10 clicks on your sight moves the group at any particular distance, calculate the number of clicks needed AND THEN TAKE THEM ALL! (No tentative, chicken-hearted 'sneaking' into the center with two or three changes - that just wastes points.)
    Related to the above are a couple of other questions: "What should my sight picture look like?" and, "Where should I hold?" While these are pretty much subjective things, some principles can be used as guides. First, you MUST have some light around the front sight when it is centered in the notch of the rear sight! Even young shooters with eyes "like an eagle" need to have easily discernable bands of light to allow the brain to make judgments as to the quality of the alignment. A good starting point for adjusting the width of the rear notch is to have light bands on either side of the front sight equal at least to =BD the front sight's apparent width. I feel the advocates of very narrow light bands are mistaken for physiological reasons: This type of sight picture fires only a few rods and cones in the retina and gives the brain only minimal information. And, as you age, some of these cells don't work anymore making it even worse. This why wide sights are sometimes called "old f---'-" sights. ("folk's" - "folk's" - what did you think?) (See the 3/99 "Note" titled "What about sights?" where this WAS discussed before and has some illustrations.)
    As to "where to hold", the best natural hold is the "center hold" as it is well established that the eye will seek the center of a circle subconsciously. However, this hold has one fatal drawback: It is hard to see black sights against a black background. This can be mitigated with added "plus" spherical correction in the shooting glasses to make the aiming mark blurred and gray, but still it is deficient in good definition. The absolute worst hold is the infamous "6-O'clock" hold! It has two main drawbacks: There is only ONE correct hold (top of front sight tangent to the lower edge of the aiming mark), which sets up terrible psychic stress: You are almost always "wrong"! So, you try harder and harder to get the "right" picture and then punch the trigger when it is fleetingly achieved. There is also an optical drawback: The refraction referred to above at the top of the front sight creates a halo there, making the intersection of the aiming mark and the sight indistinct and making it even more difficult to get it "just right".
    So, we are left with the best compromise: The "sub-6" hold. Here we use an "area aim" technique like the Center Hold, but now our sights are clearly outlined in the white area of the target. We can let them float there without concern about exact position to the aiming mark and instead concentrate on their alignment. How much below the aiming mark to hold? Start with about the same amount of white as around the front sight when centered in the rear notch. Then let your subconsciouses pick what it finds is comfortable and quit worrying about it.
    OK, enough "school"- lets go shooting!
    Don
    lkjsdljkh
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  8. #8
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    Gracias prieto por la informacion.
    LENTO ES SUAVE, SUAVE ES RAPIDO.............ONE SHOT, ONE KILL .



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    TOM_GOMEZ
    VR6 GLOCK DF




  9. #9
    Avatar de 30-30Cowboy
    30-30Cowboy no ha iniciado sesión .308 Winchester
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    muy bien prieto, ahora en español jajaja
    Regresé

  10. #10
    Avatar de Prieto9000
    Prieto9000 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    En la madre. jejejeje. Dejenme las copio en mi compu y ahi en ratitos se las voy traduciendo.
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  11. #11
    El Santo no ha iniciado sesión .38 Special +P
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    Predeterminado

    Si lo quieres traducir metete a www.altavista.com y luego a traductor babel fish copias pegas seleccionas el idioma y ya esta quiza no este 100% buena la traduccion pero se le entiende

  12. #12
    Avatar de Prieto9000
    Prieto9000 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    Cita Iniciado por El Santo Ver Mensaje
    Si lo quieres traducir metete a www.altavista.com y luego a traductor babel fish copias pegas seleccionas el idioma y ya esta quiza no este 100% buena la traduccion pero se le entiende
    La verdad es que eso nunca jala. Esas cosas traducen palabra por palabra y pues por lo general se pierde el sentido cuando ya hablas de parrafos completos. Mejor ahi me lo voy llevando.
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  13. #13
    Avatar de Champion
    Champion no ha iniciado sesión .243 Winchester
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    no lo tradusca compadre, jajaja que aprendan spanglish los compitas, jejejeje


    haber si los demas le hechamos una mano, es que es un madral de informacion.
    gun control means..use both hands
    un segundo es gran ventaja, si eres firme en desiciones, las armas abren camino, cuando lo cierran los hombres
    champion@mexicoarmado.com

  14. #14
    Avatar de Prieto9000
    Prieto9000 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    Cita Iniciado por Champion Ver Mensaje
    no lo tradusca compadre, jajaja que aprendan spanglish los compitas, jejejeje


    haber si los demas le hechamos una mano, es que es un madral de informacion.
    Es lo que yo digo, pero pues no a todos se les da.
    La verdad que si es un mundo de informacion.
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  15. #15
    Avatar de Champion
    Champion no ha iniciado sesión .243 Winchester
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    Predeterminado

    Cita Iniciado por prieto9000 Ver Mensaje
    Es lo que yo digo, pero pues no a todos se les da.
    La verdad que si es un mundo de informacion.
    tiene razon amigo, solo lo decia para que algunos agarren consiencia y no quieran todo peladito y en la boca. que traten de echarle ganas.

    yo no aprendi ingles en la escuela, y eso que tube clases de ingles en primaria,secundaria,prepa y un poco en la universidad.

    todo lo aprendi yendo a las tiradas en los EU. leyendo libros y revistas de caceria, y viendo programas de tiro y caza, ya que puedes relacionar lo que oyes con las imagenes, y solo lo piensas en tu idioma.


    saludos y echenle ganas compadres.
    gun control means..use both hands
    un segundo es gran ventaja, si eres firme en desiciones, las armas abren camino, cuando lo cierran los hombres
    champion@mexicoarmado.com

  16. #16
    Avatar de Atenogenes67
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    Cita Iniciado por prieto9000 Ver Mensaje
    es lo que yo digo, pero pues no a todos se les da.
    La verdad que si es un mundo de informacion.
    divide la tarea.. Con cual quieres que yo te ayude.. Yo me apunte al principio pero si es mucho... Tu dices
    .
    .
    .
    .
    AHORA ESTAMOS EN FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/MexArmado

    MEXICOARMADO STATE OF MIND

  17. #17
    Avatar de Prieto9000
    Prieto9000 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    Predeterminado

    Puea agarra el primer post.
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  18. #18
    Avatar de Atenogenes67
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    Predeterminado

    Cita Iniciado por prieto9000 Ver Mensaje
    Puea agarra el primer post.
    yA ESTA... DE ESE ME ENCARGO YO Y NOS PONEMOS DE ACUERDO PARA SUBIRLO EN ORDEN
    .
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    AHORA ESTAMOS EN FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/MexArmado

    MEXICOARMADO STATE OF MIND

  19. #19
    Avatar de Atenogenes67
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    Predeterminado

    Prieto 9000

    te mande por email, la primera parte del documento ya traducida, me tome una pequeña "licencia literaria" para hacerla mas clara.

    Comparala y me dices
    saludos
    .
    .
    .
    .
    AHORA ESTAMOS EN FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/MexArmado

    MEXICOARMADO STATE OF MIND

  20. #20
    Avatar de EDUARDO VEREO
    EDUARDO VEREO no ha iniciado sesión .44 Magnum
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    Predeterminado

    parece la confesion del Chino; Chen Lee

  21. #21
    Avatar de Atenogenes67
    Atenogenes67 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    Predeterminado

    Prieto, se va a poner la traduccion??
    .
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    AHORA ESTAMOS EN FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/MexArmado

    MEXICOARMADO STATE OF MIND

  22. #22
    Avatar de Prieto9000
    Prieto9000 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    Predeterminado Aqui esta.

    Aqui lo pueden empezar a ver.
    Archivos Adjuntados Archivos Adjuntados
    Última edición por Prieto9000; 30/08/2008 a las 17:48 PM
    prieto9000@mexicoarmado.com

    www.tiendamexicoarmado.com

  23. #23
    Avatar de ArMaDaX
    ArMaDaX no ha iniciado sesión .38 Special +P
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    Asuncion - Paraguay
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    Predeterminado

    Gracias por la info prieto


    Como dice el dicho, mas vale prevenir que lamentar!

    Saludos y mucha suerte para todos!

  24. #24
    Avatar de Atenogenes67
    Atenogenes67 no ha iniciado sesión Super Moderador
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    Predeterminado

    saquenle copia pero no se olviden que aun faltan mas
    .
    .
    .
    .
    AHORA ESTAMOS EN FACEBOOK https://www.facebook.com/MexArmado

    MEXICOARMADO STATE OF MIND

  25. #25
    Avatar de 30-30Cowboy
    30-30Cowboy no ha iniciado sesión .308 Winchester
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    02 May, 07
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    Mensajes
    6,435

    Predeterminado

    orale canijos jeejeje.

    yo mas o menos le mastico al english, pero aveces y mas en este tipo de temas llegas a confusion y pudes hacer todo lo contrario a lo que te dice. osea comprenderlo al revez, y por eso dije pos traducido esta mas padre pa uno jaajaja.
    pero si entiendo lo de la chinga de traducir.

    yo habiento el anzuelo si se gancha ya chingue sino pos a pescar cueviao.

    y no es por abusar ni nada, solo aviento el comentario de la traducida, quien quite y para alguien sea algo sencillo.

    saludos compadres.
    Regresé

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